Curse

Abedeus · Aug 30, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonstalker

Hero Battles is broken. Needs to be gone.

Anet has made the best, and basically only (worth mentioning) free online game - and soon to be masterful MMO - game thus far.
Pretty sure roughly 6 million people have something good to say about Anet. If you don't like it, no one will miss you when you quit.

I'm personally looking forward to these changes, and greatly appreciate the light shed on the dark that has been the news of updates.

It was never 6 millions of people, not even 6 millions of accounts.

prey monkie · Aug 30, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

BRING IT ON!!!
sounds cool^^
but i havent read about anything uwsc/SF nerf + dungeons SC, still good stuff!!

pinguinius · Aug 30, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonstalker

Anet has made the best, and basically only (worth mentioning) free online game - and soon to be masterful MMO - game thus far. Pretty sure roughly 6 million people have something good to say about Anet.

Uh, have you never played any other game? Tons of games follow the pattern of a $50 dollar game with free online play (including the company from which many of ANet's founders came from, Blizzard). Also, only 5 million copies of all the GW games were sold, and how can you even begin to quantify how many customers "have something good to say about Anet"?

ANet is not revolutionary, and neither is being open about what they plan to do for the game-- In most other online franchises it's expected.

JoeKnowMo · Aug 30, 2009, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I like everything about this. More open communication. Sealed deck. Henchie tweaks. New festival content. Testing before skill updates.

Win all around!!!

the Puppeteer · Aug 30, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Random Arena will stop promoting to Team Arena after 10 wins.

hahaha - sync promoting ftw

Xerum · Aug 30, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Hoping new AT schedule works out, really hoping. Why not just tell us the times right now?
New anything map is good, maybe.

'... Shooting for a skill balance every other month instead of every month... Skill balance updates take a surprising amount of development time...'
It doesn't help skill balancing efforts when there are random insane buffs to skills every 6 months that you'll work on for 6+ months to figure out what's wrong and still have the problem exist until you tweak the cost to ridiculous levels instead of reworking the functionality. Now it sort of looks like it'll take twice as long to 'repair' things. Not liking the message here.

Just keep Xunlai Tournament House down and put more time into figuring out pvp imbalances since no one takes suggestions over there. No loss in losing this.

HB had/has a long list of stuff everyone griefed over with entry level players to top players participating in. HB really isn't a great format to start with but keep it in game long enough and people will play it. Won't be sad to see it go.
TA could be re-worked but it's always easier to tear down and rebuild things. So I guess Sealed Deck is its replacement. I'm not reading too much into Sealed Deck but not hoping for much out of it.

Fril Estelin · Aug 30, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

hahaha - sync promoting ftw

Except you may have missed this bit:

Quote:

Syncing Random - Our server programmer has been investigating how to fix this age-old problem of organized teams appearing in Random Arena, and we’re hoping to have the results in time for this build.

Revelations · Aug 30, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

The only reasons I've heard so far are server processing power and dispersion of playerbase, however these are pretty damn weak excuses. Surely just leaving the formats as is requires far less effort than removing them entirely? Hell, just get rid of the HB MAT and ladder if it's that much of an issue.

FoxBat · Aug 30, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinguinius

Uh, have you never played any other game? Tons of games follow the pattern of a $50 dollar game with free online play

But most of them do not host the majority of game servers. Counterstrike, Quake, UT et. al. generally just run the matchmaking/indexing server, the actual gaming happens on privately owned servers unrelated to the company. Many RTS's such as starcraft operate on a peer-peer model, meaning no game server is needed beyond matchmaking. The need for company-run game servers is primarily to keep persistent/progressive character data intact. Diablo 2 is one of very few games in a similar mold to GW.

pinguinius · Aug 30, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

But most of them do not host the majority of game servers. Counterstrike, Quake, UT et. al. generally just run the matchmaking/indexing server, the actual gaming happens on privately owned servers unrelated to the company. Many RTS's such as starcraft operate on a peer-peer model, meaning no game server is needed beyond matchmaking. The need for company-run game servers is primarily to keep persistent/progressive character data intact. Diablo 2 is one of very few games in a similar mold to GW.

You're right. Battle.net's servers are hosted by AT&T and ad supported, though. I don't know to whom or even if ANet farms out its servers to.

coil · Aug 30, 2009, 08:52 PM // 20:52

upon first reading this i liked what i heard but the more i think about it the more i think it's a very very bad update.

primarily based upon the following logic: when people cry about SF and speed clearing i despise it because i enjoy that playstyle and don't want some shithead to tell me how to play the game just cause they suck at it or are too morally superior to "abuse" it themselves.

you remove HB and TA, what the hell do you expect people who base their "niche" playstyle around those gametypes to do? it's completely unfair to those who enjoy doing it. i personally dont really care BUT i think it's dumb on your part, anet, to simply discard your "ascalon academy" cadets.

here's what i dont get:

Quote:

We recognize that the Hero Battles format has reached a state of acute distress...This is largely due to flaws in the core mechanics of the format, compounded by years without skill balances to keep it in check.

Quote:

...we’ve seen this player base react in extreme ways to show us the flaws of the format.

so youre admitting you created something that had flaws from the start and neglected it. players have even given you suggestions on what is wrong/how to fix it. but instead of fixing it you're deleting it becauseeee

Quote:

As a small team, it's not healthy or wise for us to invest our limited time in projects which just create more work for no substantive effect.

oh ok. which makes sense until you read

Quote:

We’re going to slow things down by switching to a longer development cycle for each skill balance...The switch to a bimonthly schedule allows us to maintain the quality of our work

Quote:

At first, we thought that releasing larger yet more infrequent content updates would allow us to tackle the bigger projects that didn't seem possible on a faster-paced schedule. We’ve found that our schedule is still as fast paced as ever. That doesn't stop us from taking on bigger projects...

orlly? so you're slowing down updates to free up time to commit to shit that desperately needs fixing and new content implementation...like this one?

Quote:

creating a new format to replace Hero Battles, with no guarantee that it would actually fix anything or have a player base to support the new format....This is where Sealed Deck came in.

nice joke.

i hope i'm not the only one who sees the contradictions here.

and then we get to this comment...

Quote:

Team Arena...Unlike Hero Battles, Team Arena was once very popular, but a competitive atmosphere and a degenerate metagame have caused the player base to dwindle a great deal.

wasnt a bad meta the same problem with HB? weren't they both fairly popular upon respective releases but got stale over time and repetition?

here's my point, and why i'm against this idea. you're saying this shit is screwed up and this is why it's screwed. you're also saying youre going to take more time with your updates to make them better, more thorough, and bigger. the freed up time will also allow you to create new stuff, tackle bigger projects/problems, etc. BUT you won't use this free time to fix the problems youve already identified with 2 gametypes (and i'm pretty sure all pvp meta is semi-degenerate at this point).

so instead you'll remove them. you'll implement a new arena. i'm all for new content BUT you're throwing away loyal players (if they're still hb/ta'ing regularly now then they're either dumb or devout) in favor of adding something for those of us that aren't leaving (yet). is this not counter intuitive business sense?

the major thing that concerns me though, and i do hope it's not an omen of sorts, is this :

Quote:

...but we don't have the bandwidth to take on more balance maintenance.

r0bert8841 · Aug 30, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

aha coil I agree with you! their a way more HBers than Anet fails to realize

I wrote this in one of the threads in HB forum

Quote:

"Here is just one of the reasons why we chose to remove TA and HB instead of RA: according to weekly match statistics, Random Arena is the most popular PvP format in the game and always has been. Hero Battles is the least popular PvP format and always has been. In any given week, the number of matches being run in Random Arena is ~32 times higher than the number of matches in Hero Battles. More matches are held in the Ascalon Academy, a level 12 arena. And not even by just a little bit. I'm talking around +50% here. " http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...urdock/Journal

That is a quote from Linsey. The only evidence she gives us that HB is the least popular format is because their are less matches played. The HB community isn't nearly as small as they are making it out to be and I don't think they realize that. Are you telling me their are more people who play at Ascalon Academy because more matches are held? because thats what their implying. Their are many things they aren't taking into account that could skew that number. Match length is a big one, most HB matches last the full duration while can the same be said for a format like RA? Also tournaments, which a good percent of the HB community does and spends a large amount of the HB time doing, has lots of wait time between matches. a 7 game tournament may last 1 hour and 45 minutes and their are 3 of those a day. Just think of the amount of matches you can do in any other format in that amount of time. And also their is a ranking system and it takes a while to get matches at certain ranks, and the people at those ranks are the people for the most part who spend the most amount of time HBing. The Hb community is much larger than they realize. It may not be as large as RA but it certainly is not "a niche format with a player base comparable to that of the Ascalon Academy"

Thier is quite a large community of HBers most of which have spent hundreds of hours on the format. The thing about HB is it is complex but once you figure it all out you are addicted. So even if the fan base isn't very big they are all very very devoted to HB and all they wanted was a few skill touch ups and Anet just neglected us so we had to do rediculous things like changing accnt names and screwing up MaTs to finally get them to do something and Anet finally takes a look after 2 years and just decides to delete it.

Quote:

primarily based upon the following logic: when people cry about SF and speed clearing i despise it because i enjoy that playstyle and don't want some shithead to tell me how to play the game just cause they suck at it or are too morally superior to "abuse" it themselves.

The difference between HB and a farming build is most of the people who HB it is the only part of the game they play, while a farming build you remove it and their are just so many other ways to farm while their is no alternative to HB. Everyone who HBs does it because you A) don't have to deal with bad teammatesB) you don't have to sit for an hour making a group, you can just log in and just play C) It is pretty competitive with tournaments and rankings and their is no alternative to any of that. But thats probably the best example of how we feel unless you were to compare HB to just all of PvE and if Anet just removed PvE, how would you all feel?

coil · Aug 30, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0bert8841

The difference between HB and a farming build is most of the people who HB it is the only part of the game they play, while a farming build you remove it and their are just so many other ways to farm while their is no alternative to HB. Everyone who HBs does it because you A) don't have to deal with bad teammatesB) you don't have to sit for an hour making a group, you can just log in and just play C) It is pretty competitive with tournaments and rankings and their is no alternative to any of that. But thats probably the best example of how we feel unless you were to compare HB to just all of PvE and if Anet just removed PvE, how would you all feel?

exactly bro. wasnt trying to relate pve to pvp or 1 niche to another but trying to illustrate that no one should attempt to dictate how another person can play with the game given to them. and, as another has posted before, a lack/deletion of content is a loss for all of us as consumers and a retarded business move on their part.

Talania Vulcanclaw · Aug 30, 2009, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Pretty sure the novelty of the PvErs excited about Sealed Deck is gonna wear off once they realise they will still get beaten, even more so infact than HB or TA since no chance to lame the opposition.

I'll give it a month before its deader than TA and HB put together.

I bet most TAers and HBers are going to quit when the formats get deleted that'll leave Sealed Deck with a bunch of PvErs playing it once a month for a refreshment from getting an ecto. Oh well enjoy.

Animate · Aug 30, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Well, when regarding the fact how delicately Smiter's Boon was adjusted, I think we can all count on Arena.net curing another disease by killing the patient.

DreamWind · Aug 30, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

A lot of people have been asking what sealed deck is, and nobody has really answered the question yet (or worse yet given wrong/bad answers).

The idea of sealed deck is both teams get a random set of skills (both good and bad skills) to make builds with. Then they put their builds up against other teams who have different random skills. The teams do not have the same set of skills. The appeal of the format is in the fact that you have no idea what you are going to get, you must be creative making your builds, and then you have no idea what you are going to be fighting against. It has a chance to be a welcome format for all the people who don't play PvP because they complain about cookie cutter builds or elitists forcing them to play a certain build.

The only question I have is how Anet is going to implement the format. Will there be tournaments where each team gets a random deck at the beginning and plays the tournament with it? Will it be like TA where a team enters, gets a random deck, and plays with it until they lose? I'd like to hear how this format will be done. I also question how they are going to "randomize" the skills the teams get.

Also, people defending HB make no sense. The format is BROKEN...this is a FACT. The format is so broken that Anet is even ADMITTING they can no longer fix it. I would much rather them spend time on a format that has more future potential in getting more people to play PvP.

The people defending TA have a better argument. We never really saw what TA was capable of because it never meant anything. The only reason to go there was for the title or faction which is usually easier to get in RA farms anyways. If TA had a ladder of some sort we would be able to judge.

Burst Cancel · Aug 30, 2009, 11:59 PM // 23:59

I'm pretty sure the main problem with TA was that the game was never balanced around it.

As I said earlier in the thread, sealed deck doesn't look good on paper, and it's certainly no substitute for a structured format like TA. The randomization element is going to be very difficult to tune, and the setup will almost certainly be tedious for players due to frequent changing of builds. In any case, the implementation is going to be challenging, but we'll see if Anet has any good ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

snip

Krill · Aug 31, 2009, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I question the likely efficacy of a few of the projects (e.g. henchman), but overall I'm impressed with immensity and boldness of the coming changes.

Malchior Devenholm · Aug 31, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

OMG, finally Sealed Play in game. I've been waiting 4 years for this every since I read about the first Sealed Play matches.

Thank You Linsey and Live Team, good luck with the next update

FoxBat · Aug 31, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

TBH I still think they are working on pve missions to sell us, although it might not be ready until christmas. They just aren't talking about it yet.